Cyber Mobbing

Hey everyone,

It’s me again and today I have got a text about Cyber Mobbing for you. I am not sure if it is very coherent, but I just kept on writing what came into my mind.

Before I start with this topic however I just wanted to thank everyone who still reads this blog and especially the few people who even leave comments. Thank you!

Non Goth people, who hear about “Cyber Mobbing” will usually just think about mobbing on the internet, but in our subculture “Cyber” does not only refer to virtual things and activities on the internet or the internet in general (the Cyberspace), but it is, as the majority of you may know the name for a kind of sub-subculture, which is more or less connected with the Goth subculture.

More or less?

Well, at first glance Cybers and Goths do not have much in common. Simply said: The ones wear screaming bright colours and listen to (dark) electronic music while the others dress in black and prefer Goth Rock, Wave or Post Punk music.

(some pictures of oldschool Goths: this way

 and to see Cybers: click here)

But we also know that there exists a lot of diversity within what is called the Goth subculture and it is not easy to set boundaries. For there is no checklist which clearly defines all the attributes of “real Goths” and almost everyone has an (at least slightly) different opinion about what and who is Goth and what and who is not.

“Pure” Gothic does not exist and most likely never did, because it is a wide umbrella term open for many different kinds of interpretation. Many music genres and people fit under that umbrella and even more claim to fit in.

Some Cybers do not just call themselves Cybers, but Cyber Goths and they claim to be part of the Goth subculture (and therefore of course also visit Goth Clubs or Festivals). Obviously they feel connected to Gothic somehow (and some Cyber Goth argue that they are “Goths at heart and wear black daily but prefer bright colours at the club because they like to stand out from the crowd).

I do not want to decide who is Goth and who is not and weather someone is an oldschool Goth, a Cyber, both or neither has nothing to do with them being a nice, intelligent and interesting person.

However, I noticed that the aversion to Cybers seems to increase.

I have always heard (in clubs) and read (online) snarky remarks about Cybers and various nicknames for them.

Around here Cyber Goths are often called:

“Glühwürmchen” = German for glowflies

“Knicklichtgrufties” = Knicklicht = snap light lightsticks

                                     Grufties = Goths

„Schlauchköpfe“ = Schlauch = tube (which names the Cyberloxx)

                               Köpfe = heads

(by the way, I recently read in an online Cyber Goth community that some of them call other Goths (= non Cyber Goths) “Black Goths” which sounds to me like a Pleonasm).

These monikers can be used in an ironically but rather friendly manner, but also as an insult.

Hate towards Cybers seems to grow, even if their number has decreased (at least that is what I have noticed, I am pretty sure that this depends strongly on where you live).

People make fun of their clothes, their general appearance (“Those colours are hurting my eyes, give me cancer…”), the way they dance, the music they listen to and so on.

It seems like especially oldschool Goths or Batcaver (who tend to act like they are the only ones who understand what Gothic truly is, which music you have got to hear and which clothes you have got to wear) do not like Cybers and strictly do not want them within the (“their”) subculture.

For this there could be many reasons:

They do not like the music commonly associated with Cybers which is now played more frequently at the clubs, they contend that the colourful clothing ruins the dark, gloomy atmosphere and so eventually the “good and true old Gothic” will vanish.

A the same time I noticed something like a “back to the roots” movement or at least a growing desire and interest for the roots and “the old times” (music and fashion wise) when everything was better and blacker.

The ways to show this antipathy are various. Some people just make some snarky remarks or whisper with their friends, others hand out flyers (as it happened at the WGT, as I was told) and again others post their opinion on the internet.

There are special sites and groups, for example on facebook which are called: “Anti Cyber Movement” and similar names (where it is made clear, quite caustically that Cybers are not welcome and not wanted within the Goth subculture).

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I do not think the people who are running sites like this, are supporting those sites or just agree with the opinion that Cyber has nothing to do with the (original) Goth subculture are bad, close-minded or completely wrong. But sometimes the sound is very harsh and this makes me worried. Because you can post anonymously on the internet some opinions shared are quite extreme and full of hate.

My assumption is that the Goths who are against Cyber in such a manner somehow feel threatened, like “their” subculture, where they have always felt comfortable and at home is invaded by strange, colourful people who do not fit in but say so nonetheless and because “their” subculture is transforming.

If more and more Cybers attend Goth Clubs or Goth nights in Clubs and the owners want them to stay (because they are also guests and pay as well) they will maybe change the music to please them, which leads to even more Cybers visiting that club.

Vicious circle?

However, the, in my opinion best solution would be to simply divide those two subcultures.

Yes, I think there are two, of course they are interconnected and there are crossovers and of course there are “true” Cyber Goths, people who feel like they are Goth and Cyber (like there are people who are Goth and Metaller, Goth and Lolita etc.) but there are also lots of people who are just Goths / just Cybers.

They could have their own clubs, parties, meetings, festivals….

(I know that simply separating more often than not would just work in theory, because in many regions each subculture on its own is too tiny to have its own clubs and parties why Goths and Cybers will still have to cope with each other in the future)

Sadly when talking about Goths and Cybers the debate quickly becomes one about tolerance and intolerance.

I do not think Goths should love and tolerate everyone, because then the subculture may transform beyond recognition. But nonetheless we should respect others (and their taste in fashion, music, dancing style…).

So: Divide don’t fight.

We neither have to love nor hate each other, but if we are always stuck in the same club together disagreements are vary likely to arise.

~ Lucretia ~

My Goth Confession

I have good news and bad news.

Good news (for you) first: I now have more time than expected to write, why the next post is already done.

Bad news (for me): That’s because I am still in Vienna and not in Leipzig. I got sick and had to cancel the WGT.

I am really sad about this, but decided to use the extra time (besides laying in bed mourning over my fate) to write a post, also because I have promised to do that more often now.

Goth Confessions

Do you already know the tumblr “Goth Confessions” by accident? (Link here)

The confessions (or often just simple statements and opinions) posted there are sometimes true, sometimes hilarious, sometimes a little bit boring (or just too obvious to be a confession) [“Black is my favourite colour, but my parents don’t like that”] and sometimes I guess they are just trolling [“I love it that Katy Perry is Goth now!”]

However, they are always, according to the moderators, related to the Goth Subculture.

A lot of these confessions are about “not feeling Goth enough”. Although there is no common definition about what is Gothic, who is Goth and who is not. There is no check list you can tick off with all the necessary things you have to do and to like, to hate and to avoid to be “a real Goth” and in spite of that many people obviously don’t feel “Goth enough” and oftentimes are sad about this.

Said confessions oftentimes sound like this:

“Sometimes I don’t feel “Goth enough” because  - I don’t have naturally pale skin

-         I don’t like Bauhaus

-          I am afraid of Bats

-         black hair does not suit me

Well, you see, in fact it is nothing serious, but it seems to trouble them nonetheless.

However, here is my Goth confession (which is not serious either):

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SOMETIMES I DO NOT FEEL “GOTH ENOUGH”

BECAUSE I CAN’T SEW

I always admire and envy the Goths who create and sew their outfits themselves. I admire their skills, their creativity, their patience and, of course, their unique clothes and accessories.

Besides many Goths seem to despise bought clothing, because that is just “mass produced, low quality, yet overpriced stuff off the rack, which everyone can buy and wear”.

So sometimes I don’t feel creative, unique or “Goth enough” because I cant sew and just wear bought clothes.

Maybe one day I will learn how to sew, but it does not look like this is going to happen soon. Maybe I should just start learning how to alter my clothes to make them more individual or more fitting (right now safety pins are my best friends).

~ Lucretia ~ 

Soon: WGT

Soon: WGT

I am pretty sure you have all heard of the WGT – the Wave Gotik Treffen (in German “das Treffen” means “the meeting”) – before.

It is the biggest meeting of the Goth Subculture worldwide and it takes place annually every Whitsuntide in Leipzig, Germany and lasts 4 days. Many bands and artists play at several venues throughout the city (and there are not only concerts, but also readings, exhibitions, partys, special meetings, picnics etc.).

I visited it last year for the first time and was so impressed by all the beautiful people and the multifaceted program. There were just so many things to see and to do!

This year I am going to attend the WGT again and I am already very excited.

I can proudly claim to be prepared – I checked how to get there (and back again), put together all of my outfits and took a look at the playing schedule. 

We will leave Thursday morning and stay till Tuesday, this way we can fully enjoy all of the 4 days of the WGT and hopefully avoid to get stressed out.

I am really looking forward to having a great time with my friends from Vienna, meeting new people or people I just know via the Internet so far, visiting various concerts and taking a lot of pictures!

Maybe I will post a little review afterwards, if you are interested.  

More information about the WGT:

Official website

Sadgoth - an unofficial guide to WGT

~ Lucretia ~ 

I am alive

I am alive!

This post is especially dedicated to Elisa, a very nice girl who obviously likes my Blog and asked me lately when I am going to write something again.

Where have I been?

Frankly I was (and I still am) very busy because of:

-         University (working on my bachelor thesis)

-         My new job

-         Some private problems

So there was not really much time left to think about something else, like my blog.

I am sorry and I really hope that I will be able to write and post a little bit more from now on (well, less is not possible, is it?)

Topics I want to cover in upcoming posts:

-         WGT

-         My Goth Confession

-         Gothic Models

(subject to alterations)

You are Goth if...

Hallo everyone, it´s me again!
I created a new list for you - surprise, surprise. However, I hope you enjoy it and do not take it too seriously!

You know you are Goth, if…

• If you see this:

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         you do not think about home imrpovement or architechture, but about music and Peter Murphy.  

• Looking unhealthy (according to other people, like your mother) does not equal looking bad

  

• You take “strange” as a compliment

  

• You want to be adopted by The Addams Family or the Munsters

  

• You have no idea how to pluck you eyebrows properly, but you can shave them off and draw them back within 20 seconds.

  

• You go out to enjoy the music and talk to your friends, not to get drunk and laid.

  

• Whitsuntide is the most important holiday!

  

• You wear your sunglasses at night – and your sun block too.

  

• You do not think that sewing is old-fashioned, boring and just fro grandmas, but rather a great way to be creative and to create unique clothes.

 You do not have to sort your clothes in dark and light coloured items before washing them and at least  half the things you own need to be cleaned by hand anyway

• You know that there is more than one shade of black and that black and black do not match necessarily.

 Take care!

~ Lucretia ~

Love 10:10 Hate

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Hello everyone!

If you read my last two posts about what I love and what I hate about the Goth subculture you maybe wonder now how I truly feel about it, because I listed 10 things on the one and 10 things on the other side, which means there is a tie.

I have to admit that the subculture and its members are far from perfect. Many people try to prove desperately how gothic they are and often have no clue about anything at all, there are elitists who refuse to speak with anyone who is not dressed “rightly” or does not listen to the “right music”, the discussions about exactly these topics (music, fashion, but also politics) are endless, a lot of clubs which claim to host “Gothic Nights” just play Techno music and among people outside the subculture still lots of prejudices against Goths exist.  

So, what is left to love?

In my opinion the positive aspects predominate in spite of everything.

Inside the subculture there are not just posers and elitists, but a lot of very nice, interesting, creative people with whom you can have a lot of fun and who are great friends, who do not care about your clothes or your favourite band. In fact I met very few unkind people within the subculture and after looking around a little bit I discovered some clubs and places where great music is played and a comfortable yet gloomy atmosphere is created.

The Goth music, as much as the fashion is so eclectic that you will always find something new and exiting and for other people, they are – in most cases – just strangers, if they stare, so what! Be confident, stay friendly and do not worry too much.

In a nutshell:

I belief you can steer clear of the negative aspects – music, people or clubs you do not like quite easily and you do not have to care about strange looks and comments. To be honest I am mostly amused by the ridiculous prejudices.

On the other side you can find and enjoy the positive aspects almost everywhere. You can listen to your favourite music, wear your darkest outfit and just create and / or feel that special atmosphere wherever you are.  

Admire creative outfits in a club or online and thinking about creating something similar for yourself, listening to music, weather in a club or in your room, read or write gothic novels, paint, sew, take part in one of the various discussions or do not and create your own dark, magical world.

There may be 10 things I hate and 10 things I love about Gothic, but the former I can easily avoid and the latter form by far a major part of the subculture.  

~ Lucretia ~

10 things I hate about Gothic

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10 things I hate about Gothic

1 – The term „Gothic“ itself, because of all the strange clichés, which are attached to it, as I already explained here.

2 – The confusion about the various substyles and other alternative fashions. I am bit bugged by all the Cybers, Metallheads, Lolitas or Middle age Fans, who call themselves Goth and represent a contradictive image in public.

3 – Braggers and posers who think that they know everything about Gothic fashion, Goth music and Gothic in any event (this also applies to the Elitists).

4 – If Techno music is played in a Goth Club (and called Industrial) or if just the same songs are played every evening again and again.

5 – The endless discussions about what Gothic is and what it is not or about who is the gothiest Goth of the night.

6 – This whole “the subculture is dead…” yackety-yak. It is not dead because it changed or because it is not 100 % like you want it to be.

7 – If so called “Goth bands” (which are at least called “Goth bands” to attract a certain target audience) get famous and people who have never heard anything about Gothic before suddenly claim to know all about the subculture while people who have loved the band for years abruptly stop liking them (because now they are Mainstream^^).

8 – Many great garments are very expensive and hard to get (especially if you live in Austria).

9 – Still lots of negative stereotypes about and prejudices against Goths exist.

10 – The majority of extravagant Gothic clothing (for women) may be beautiful, but it is also extremely impractical (Corsets, High Heel Platform boots, hooped skirts, bustles, flared sleeves…) 

~ Lucretia ~